trader889
Jan 26, 11:18 PM
You can't tell much about where a company is going by looking at P/E, as by definition, this is a backwards-looking statistic. All of the companies you mention are growing far more slowly than Apple, which is why their trailing P/E ratios are lower. This is sort of what you said, but it's worth clarifying that you can't necessarily compare P/E ratios between companies with vastly different growth rates.
True, that's why I like to look at the PEG Ratio (P/E to Growth). If we take the current price of 130 minus cash net of payables and receivables (approx $17 a share), you get 113 for the "enterprise" value of Apple. I'll give it a conservative $5/share earnings this year, for a P/E of 23. According to Yahoo, we have an estimate of 30% growth this year, so we are getting a PEG of less than 1 for this year. Less than 1 is cheap, HOWEVER, it doesn't mean it can't/won't get cheaper.
I'm long Apple, so I have a bias, but here are some things to think about:
1) Market is reacting to bad numbers for the ipod, supposedly bad numbers for the iphone, recession concerns etc.. Do you think Apple is not going to come out with anything new this year that can add to the bottom line?
2) Apple is opening up more new stores worldwide. I believe their average sales at the stores is about $4000/sq foot. Their first China store is opening up in Beijing this year (think Olympics). Also, despite some of the headlines about no China iphone deal, CEO of China Mobile (370 million subscribers) stated this past weekend in Davos, Switzerland "We've not started any formal negotiations with Apple. The door is open to all for discussions about fashionable phones". This pretty reiterates what Steve Jobs said. Also, let's not forget all the other countries that have no iphone deals.
3) $18 billion in cash. Let's say that this earns 2%. Comes out to about 30,000,000 a month or .03 per share in earnings just on interest. On the conference call, I think one of the analysts said that Apple is averaging about $1 billion a quarter in cash, although last quarter was killer when they added $3 billion.
4) 45% of Apple's revenues come from overseas. This will only get larger as they open more stores overseas. Unless we get a worldwide recession, overseas sales should help cushion any US slowdown. Also, all the US analysts keep coming up with their updates based upon their "channel" checks, does this include overseas channel checks? I doubt it. So be wary of what they say.
5) Personally, I think the Macbook Air was developed with Japan in mind. In previous conference calls, CFO said Japan was one of the weaker markets. As some of you may know, Japan loves small, ultraportable computers.
Feel to comment/criticize, but as one poster said, if you think Apple is finished as a company, sell. If you think the future still looks good, don't look at the price of Apple for 3 months or as Warren Buffet says, 10 years..lol.
True, that's why I like to look at the PEG Ratio (P/E to Growth). If we take the current price of 130 minus cash net of payables and receivables (approx $17 a share), you get 113 for the "enterprise" value of Apple. I'll give it a conservative $5/share earnings this year, for a P/E of 23. According to Yahoo, we have an estimate of 30% growth this year, so we are getting a PEG of less than 1 for this year. Less than 1 is cheap, HOWEVER, it doesn't mean it can't/won't get cheaper.
I'm long Apple, so I have a bias, but here are some things to think about:
1) Market is reacting to bad numbers for the ipod, supposedly bad numbers for the iphone, recession concerns etc.. Do you think Apple is not going to come out with anything new this year that can add to the bottom line?
2) Apple is opening up more new stores worldwide. I believe their average sales at the stores is about $4000/sq foot. Their first China store is opening up in Beijing this year (think Olympics). Also, despite some of the headlines about no China iphone deal, CEO of China Mobile (370 million subscribers) stated this past weekend in Davos, Switzerland "We've not started any formal negotiations with Apple. The door is open to all for discussions about fashionable phones". This pretty reiterates what Steve Jobs said. Also, let's not forget all the other countries that have no iphone deals.
3) $18 billion in cash. Let's say that this earns 2%. Comes out to about 30,000,000 a month or .03 per share in earnings just on interest. On the conference call, I think one of the analysts said that Apple is averaging about $1 billion a quarter in cash, although last quarter was killer when they added $3 billion.
4) 45% of Apple's revenues come from overseas. This will only get larger as they open more stores overseas. Unless we get a worldwide recession, overseas sales should help cushion any US slowdown. Also, all the US analysts keep coming up with their updates based upon their "channel" checks, does this include overseas channel checks? I doubt it. So be wary of what they say.
5) Personally, I think the Macbook Air was developed with Japan in mind. In previous conference calls, CFO said Japan was one of the weaker markets. As some of you may know, Japan loves small, ultraportable computers.
Feel to comment/criticize, but as one poster said, if you think Apple is finished as a company, sell. If you think the future still looks good, don't look at the price of Apple for 3 months or as Warren Buffet says, 10 years..lol.
rednano74
Apr 13, 09:40 PM
I just got back from a weekend trip in Chicago. I saw a guy talking on his white iPhone. For the life of me I can't exactly remember where I was though - shopping on Michigan Ave or maybe at Midway.
All I can remember is saying to myself, "Holy ****, that guy has a white one."
All I can remember is saying to myself, "Holy ****, that guy has a white one."
steve knight
Apr 18, 01:22 PM
Dialup? Download took a few minutes for me. 4.27 for Verizon.
nope not a clue why it took about 3 hours total. wife and I were both getting it and it was slow for both of us. you would think the crunch was done by yesterday.
nope not a clue why it took about 3 hours total. wife and I were both getting it and it was slow for both of us. you would think the crunch was done by yesterday.
twoodcc
Nov 5, 05:22 PM
Both computers now up-and-running. No complaints from the designers regarding poor performance :)
I'm running the standard client, I'll look into the other options when I got some spare time.
It's quite remarkable to see the performance boost compared to my G5 dual 1.8 that's been folding for years.
glad to hear it. just so you know, the bigadv units will get you some big time points. it really is worth it if the machine is fast enough, and i'm pretty sure those are
I'm running the standard client, I'll look into the other options when I got some spare time.
It's quite remarkable to see the performance boost compared to my G5 dual 1.8 that's been folding for years.
glad to hear it. just so you know, the bigadv units will get you some big time points. it really is worth it if the machine is fast enough, and i'm pretty sure those are
ZooCrewMan
Apr 15, 02:57 PM
You do know everyone who has a changelog is under NDA, don't you? Why don't you just go look at the change log?
Uh-Oh! The Non-Disclosure Police are on patrol! Look out!
Uh-Oh! The Non-Disclosure Police are on patrol! Look out!
.jpg "Beautiful Pink Leopard Print")
crees!
Jul 26, 02:50 PM
Did ye all not read the report. The whole point is that it is a "Proximity sensor" . That it can detect your gestures while "spaced away" from the ipod. This would be no big deal if it required rubbing your greasy fingers all over the display!! Yes and it states "a touch screen display" "For multifunctional handheld devices".
"The method includes sensing an object spaced away and in close proximity to the electronic device. The method also includes performing an action in the electronic device when an object is sensed." Meaning when I'm close to touching the darn thing do/show this when this is happening on screen.
Did you read it?
http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/part_1_apple_files_proximity_detector_in_handheld_device_patent_application/
EDIT: Still not "touchless" either....
"For example, when using a touch sensing device along with a proximity detection system, advanced gestures may be performed that combine proximity gestures along with touch gestures."
"The method includes sensing an object spaced away and in close proximity to the electronic device. The method also includes performing an action in the electronic device when an object is sensed." Meaning when I'm close to touching the darn thing do/show this when this is happening on screen.
Did you read it?
http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/part_1_apple_files_proximity_detector_in_handheld_device_patent_application/
EDIT: Still not "touchless" either....
"For example, when using a touch sensing device along with a proximity detection system, advanced gestures may be performed that combine proximity gestures along with touch gestures."
3N16MA
May 3, 11:59 PM
OR another reason: Apple decided to go verizon exclusive and ATT is shunned.
That sounds like a very solid business decisions. I predict Apple making billions with that move.
That sounds like a very solid business decisions. I predict Apple making billions with that move.
Master-D
Apr 14, 03:20 AM
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5101/5616448166_84b6fbd9a8_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/damoncrane)
mrrory
Jul 28, 02:22 PM
Have you ever used Pandora.com? (It's pretty awesome)
Not until just now, it's rather amazing! Thanks for the tip!!
Not until just now, it's rather amazing! Thanks for the tip!!
SandynJosh
Jun 6, 05:40 PM
[SIZE=1]How do you request a refund? Who do you contact?
sjobs@apple.com
sjobs@apple.com
Evangelion
Jul 12, 01:29 AM
wireless (Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Wi-Max whatever)? I used to think that this was a cool thing to have in an iPod. an iPod with internet radio capability sounds like a really cool idea. I'm lukewarm about now.
I'm not. What would I like to see from Apple? What would my ideal iPod be like? Let's explore the possibilities.
Bluetooth-headphones. This would kick ass. No more wires that get tangled up. And it CAN be done!
Large touch-screen. No separate controls, the controls would be right in the display (like in the image that was linked before in this thread).
And before you say "but there would be fingerprints on the screen! And it wouldn't provide any tactile feedback!". Ah, but how about that "no-touch" controls that have been rumored? I have no idea that is it really possible, but what if? You could simply hover you finger 1cm from the screen and use the controls. No fingerprints. As to the tactile feedback.... Tactile feedback is used that you know where the controls are without actually looking at the screen. "No-touch" UI does not have this, because you aren't actually touching anything. So how do we make this work? Well, what if you could just put your finger close to the screen ANYWHERE on the screen. If you do circlular motion (like in current iPod) the device would scroll, adjust volume, and do the other things you can do on the current iPod. If you move your finger straigh up, it would be equivaltnof clicking "menu". Straight down would be play/pause and so forth.
As to WLAN and the like.... What if the new iPod could be tied to iChat? You could VOIP to/from the iPod. just turn on the wireless, and browse to the "buddy list" menu on your iPod, and you are all set. Hell, the iPod could have a camera as well! if they can put video-cameras on phones, is there any reason why iPod couldn't have one?
if we assume that the "no-touch" UI is possible, then nothing I have listed is impossible. iPod with those specs would be YEARS ahead of any other device on the market! It would absolutely embarrass all the other devices.
I'm not. What would I like to see from Apple? What would my ideal iPod be like? Let's explore the possibilities.
Bluetooth-headphones. This would kick ass. No more wires that get tangled up. And it CAN be done!
Large touch-screen. No separate controls, the controls would be right in the display (like in the image that was linked before in this thread).
And before you say "but there would be fingerprints on the screen! And it wouldn't provide any tactile feedback!". Ah, but how about that "no-touch" controls that have been rumored? I have no idea that is it really possible, but what if? You could simply hover you finger 1cm from the screen and use the controls. No fingerprints. As to the tactile feedback.... Tactile feedback is used that you know where the controls are without actually looking at the screen. "No-touch" UI does not have this, because you aren't actually touching anything. So how do we make this work? Well, what if you could just put your finger close to the screen ANYWHERE on the screen. If you do circlular motion (like in current iPod) the device would scroll, adjust volume, and do the other things you can do on the current iPod. If you move your finger straigh up, it would be equivaltnof clicking "menu". Straight down would be play/pause and so forth.
As to WLAN and the like.... What if the new iPod could be tied to iChat? You could VOIP to/from the iPod. just turn on the wireless, and browse to the "buddy list" menu on your iPod, and you are all set. Hell, the iPod could have a camera as well! if they can put video-cameras on phones, is there any reason why iPod couldn't have one?
if we assume that the "no-touch" UI is possible, then nothing I have listed is impossible. iPod with those specs would be YEARS ahead of any other device on the market! It would absolutely embarrass all the other devices.
peeInMyPantz
Oct 24, 08:03 AM
what happened to radical new design?
firestarter
Apr 17, 08:31 PM
Idk why people say that the update affects only gamers. It affects almost everyone. OpenGLs, 3D, movies, etc.
I get you... it's not just about games!
When we say "enough" and "runs fine" we are thinking of apps that require minimal standards. Man, when we are talking about at least quality games such as WoW, SC2, and MMO's, the difference between 320m and the Intel GPU is the difference between "playable and not playable"
...except all your examples ARE games!
Like millions of other Mac owners, I don't play any games on my Mac and haven't for years. With iOS devices and consoles being so much cheaper, it just doesn't make any sense to me to pimp-up my Mac for gaming.
I get you... it's not just about games!
When we say "enough" and "runs fine" we are thinking of apps that require minimal standards. Man, when we are talking about at least quality games such as WoW, SC2, and MMO's, the difference between 320m and the Intel GPU is the difference between "playable and not playable"
...except all your examples ARE games!
Like millions of other Mac owners, I don't play any games on my Mac and haven't for years. With iOS devices and consoles being so much cheaper, it just doesn't make any sense to me to pimp-up my Mac for gaming.
toddybody
Apr 15, 01:43 PM
Im just glad for TRIM support in Lion.
tipdrill407
Jul 24, 03:57 PM
I think this BT MM will replace the Apple BT mouse currently available. Apple is already offering the MM with all mac desktops except the mini. And to me i think it's very annoying to be stuck with one button when using a desktop so it only makes sense to get rid of the one button BT mouse.
jettredmont
Oct 23, 07:45 PM
EFI is not an emulation of bios.
Correct. EFI and BIOS are different animals. MacBooks and Mac Pros don't include BIOS. Windows requires BIOS (unless Vista has changed back to supporting EFI). Boot Camp EMULATES BIOS on top of EFI.
That was the point. Might hit the "or otherwise emulated" parenthetical in the EULA. Someone will need to talk with a lawyer on that one.
BTW: What Microsoft SAYS about the EULA is pretty much meaningless. The only things that will be held up in court are, in rapidly-descending order of relevance:
1. The EULA
2. Official pronouncements declaring intent of EULA (which might go to prove willful deception; I suspect the EULA contains a clause that any external pronouncements can not change or limit the content of the agreement, blah blah blah).
3. WAY down from the last, well-documented statements from a management-level individual at the company promising that the reading of the EULA is incorrect.
So, if a straight reading of the EULA might be interpreted to mean it can not be run on a virtual machine or under emulation of any sort, then thats the truth, no matter how much the Borg doth protest.
Correct. EFI and BIOS are different animals. MacBooks and Mac Pros don't include BIOS. Windows requires BIOS (unless Vista has changed back to supporting EFI). Boot Camp EMULATES BIOS on top of EFI.
That was the point. Might hit the "or otherwise emulated" parenthetical in the EULA. Someone will need to talk with a lawyer on that one.
BTW: What Microsoft SAYS about the EULA is pretty much meaningless. The only things that will be held up in court are, in rapidly-descending order of relevance:
1. The EULA
2. Official pronouncements declaring intent of EULA (which might go to prove willful deception; I suspect the EULA contains a clause that any external pronouncements can not change or limit the content of the agreement, blah blah blah).
3. WAY down from the last, well-documented statements from a management-level individual at the company promising that the reading of the EULA is incorrect.
So, if a straight reading of the EULA might be interpreted to mean it can not be run on a virtual machine or under emulation of any sort, then thats the truth, no matter how much the Borg doth protest.
fcortese
Apr 7, 08:43 AM
A bunch of great looking photos and very good work this month from everyone!
Here's hoping that the weather gets better to get a few in here myself :)
Ditto. Miserable "spring" out here. It's still snowing!
Here's hoping that the weather gets better to get a few in here myself :)
Ditto. Miserable "spring" out here. It's still snowing!
canyonblue737
Mar 31, 11:02 AM
Unifying features? Fine. Unifying the button/slides with the iPad version. Also fine. Creating that horrible leather look on OS X (vs. the iPad where it looks ok) ... NOT FINE. Fix the look Apple, this is the worst thing on a desktop computer since brushed metal. ;)
Moyank24
Apr 25, 08:33 PM
After this post, I can�t even think straight.
Me neither. ;)
Me neither. ;)
Zonz
Dec 31, 01:05 AM
Since when did a persons lifestyle choice become everyone else's business? Jesus, I didn't realize being fat was such an ethical decision... :rolleyes:
And to actually bring in healthcare and politics into this? Seriously? Then you guys should:
1) stop smoking cigarettes,
2) stop eating fast food,
3) stop sitting on your ass typing on mac rumors (maybe go for a run?)
4) avoid ever single carcinogen on the planet, like say, the sun (UV radiation?)...
5) stop driving cars, or doing anything that involves fast or dangerous movement, like say sports?
6) be the perfect most healthy person ever...
...because it's my problem. I'm paying for it in my taxes. HOW COULD YOU BE SO SELFISH!?
This is her choice. It effects her and her family, not you. I forgot how God declared that fat people go straight to hell, because being fat is so evil...
And to actually bring in healthcare and politics into this? Seriously? Then you guys should:
1) stop smoking cigarettes,
2) stop eating fast food,
3) stop sitting on your ass typing on mac rumors (maybe go for a run?)
4) avoid ever single carcinogen on the planet, like say, the sun (UV radiation?)...
5) stop driving cars, or doing anything that involves fast or dangerous movement, like say sports?
6) be the perfect most healthy person ever...
...because it's my problem. I'm paying for it in my taxes. HOW COULD YOU BE SO SELFISH!?
This is her choice. It effects her and her family, not you. I forgot how God declared that fat people go straight to hell, because being fat is so evil...
jazz1
Apr 28, 04:07 PM
Honey, does this white iPhone make my backside look fat ;)
damixt
Mar 15, 08:48 AM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)
Cerritos has about 20 people in line right now.
Cerritos has about 20 people in line right now.
tekjunke
Jan 30, 06:59 PM
Tickets, to see:
http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/the_mechanic_movie_poster_01.jpg
All I can say is wow, just wow. No wonder it has a 48% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
My sentiments exactly! if it weren't for laughing at the ridiculously impossible stunts... I would have fallen asleep
http://collider.com/wp-content/uploads/the_mechanic_movie_poster_01.jpg
All I can say is wow, just wow. No wonder it has a 48% rating on Rotten Tomatoes.
My sentiments exactly! if it weren't for laughing at the ridiculously impossible stunts... I would have fallen asleep
unclesilver
Apr 22, 07:42 PM
I can believe they will make a small gesture button but i dont think the phone will look like that, its hideous.
My guess is they are going to do minor change, basically make a 4s. Will be faster slightly larger screen, thays about it. To me, they have pretty much created the perfect phone already
My guess is they are going to do minor change, basically make a 4s. Will be faster slightly larger screen, thays about it. To me, they have pretty much created the perfect phone already
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